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Clement,Feel
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Hi Clement,Feel free to call me Joshua. The reason I get this name due to otrehs' convenient.1) Institution in both senses.2) I'm not familiar with RI's history hence might not be giving an appropriate response. But to equate current Roman Catholic church with the early church in its institutional authority, orientation, etc is anachronistic.That depends what are included in the "ethos". For those like Hans Kung, who has a different set of ethos from Ratzinger, thinks that non-Roman Catholic church as also a church.3) Yes, I'm familiar with those passages you quoted. Now have you ever wonder why did Paul need to wrote those? Why did he need to tell the Corinthians churches that various churches are part of one church? The reason was because there are segments in the church does not recognize the other segment as church, and some recognize the other as sub-church. To parallel current day, the Roman Catholic church does not recognize say a Methodist church as a church. To the Vatican, Methodist church is a sub-church. So your quotations of those passages are well suited for the Vatican too.The relation between the pope and the patriach was not as innocent as you thought. The political ambition of both sides are seen after the post-council argument over canon 28 of the council. Since then there was already a tension between Rome and Constantinople. And such tension bubbled into the great schism in 1054 when both sides excommunicated each other. It was not until Vatican II they reconciled.Do spare all the name-calling like 'anti-Catholic' etc because none of these help in the conversation. Add to that, you are not responding to my point at all. You wrote, "You are right to say that there was no centralized administration in the Church in the first five centuries, but you are wrong to say that there was any centralized administration in the Church after the first five centuries."Let me paste what I wrote to your, "There was no centralize administration role played by Rome. The centrality of the Roman church only comes into prominence after Constatine's conversion, riding on the tide of Constantin'e political ambition.You falsely and uncharacteristically accused me for saying (a) there was no centralized administration of the church in the first five centuries, and (b) there was any centralized administration in the Church after the first five centuries. And then you charged me for positing a classical protestant caricature of catholic which is inaccurate. I didn't say any of those in the first place. You dont have to put words into my mouth in order for you to identify me as giving an inaccurate classical caricature. 3) I am not saying that Malaysia churches should purge itself because Ireland churches should purge itself. I was saying that since only now we know there is a lot of such cases in Ireland after victims are encouraged and authorized legally to step up to testify, therefore Malaysia churches should also encourage and authorized legally victims to step up to testify, if any.In other words, I was not saying that Malaysian churches should follow Ireland churches; I was saying that since there is such problem in other churches due to previous negligence, we now need to avoid rid of such negligence to prevent the problem.
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(VISITOR) AUTHOR'S NAME
Imran
MESSAGE TIMESTAMP
16 december 2014, 16:54:48
AUTHOR'S IP LOGGED
190.201.99.247
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